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Author Topic: Rosette welds  (Read 902 times)

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Offline ETChamp

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Rosette welds
« on: November 29, 2006, 06:22:10 pm »
On the shoulder hoop, where it can be spliced on the sides,(right behind the front of the roll cage) how long does the insert need to be? From the prints, it measures right at 6 inches.

How many holes need to be drilled on eash side of the splice and what size holes?
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Offline justin

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« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2006, 06:39:03 pm »
It has to be (I think) to show the depth of the insert. I was told not to weld my in until I had it inspected. I had the hole on the side that the tube inserted into.

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Offline cnitrofumes

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« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2006, 08:38:55 pm »
10.1E SFI spec reads as follows:

"The interior reinforcement tubes must extend (1) inch (25.4mm) minimum ahead of the forward edge of the forward roll cage hoop to (1) inch minimum behind the rear edge of the forward seat uprights"

Rosette welds are just that....they look like a rose....you should be able to physically SEE the inner tube after the weld is COMPLETE !!

I make (4) 1/2 inch holes in the outer tube (shoulder hoop ) before assembly...0ne on each side of the tube and at each end of the insert....the rosettes should be at the 1" minimum location which means the tube is atleast an inch longer than that at each end....the purpose of the rosettes is to show the insert and prove it's atleast as long as the spec. dictates.

You can see the holes in this photo.......behind the seat upright and in front of the hoop.....

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Offline cnitrofumes

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« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2006, 08:47:07 pm »
PS....splice joint has to be between the front hoop and the seat upright.
I had a car a few years back that we built with an "insert" that went from behind the motor plate to all the way thru the whole shoulder hoop right back to the other side behind the plate.
Obviously...the rosette holes were drilled first...then we bent the shoulder hoop / top rail with the insert in place...."insert" was probably 120" long atleast but the welds were at the spec locations.....OVERKILL...I KNOW.
The car in the pic has an insert about 24" long in each side....goes from behind the 2nd cage hoop to about 12" ahead of the front hoop. AGAIN...welds are in the same spot...according to spec.
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Offline Chi Town Brown

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« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2006, 08:53:31 pm »
Quote (cnitrofumes @ Nov. 29 2006,19:47)
PS....splice joint has to be between the front hoop and the seat upright.
I had a car a few years back that we built with an "insert" that went from behind the motor plate to all the way thru the whole shoulder hoop right back to the other side behind the plate.
Obviously...the rosette holes were drilled first...then we bent the shoulder hoop / top rail with the insert in place...."insert" was probably 120" long atleast but the welds were at the spec locations.....OVERKILL...I KNOW.
The car in the pic has an insert about 24" long in each side....goes from behind the 2nd cage hoop to about 12" ahead of the front hoop. AGAIN...welds are in the same spot...according to spec.

If your tube is 24 inches long total on each side then why did you choose to have the Rosettes so close to the Uprite and front hoop?  Shouldn't the Rosettes be near the ends of your tube to show the extended slip tube?
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Offline cnitrofumes

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« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2006, 09:14:19 pm »
The spec is a minimum....the weld are actually a little further than the min. 1 inch....in either direction...but still in a location that would be normally looked at by the chassis cert. tech. guy.

You don't get any points for building heavier than the spec...again it's a MIN. requirement.
I do some stuff out of experience / knowledge.... .095 rear uprights instead of .083......ALL roll cages .083 regardless of height.......sleeves over min. tube sizes at high stress area such as  bottom rails at rearend plates and at frontend mounts.....
I've done the math....adds minimal weight compared to added safety/ durability.
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Offline Chi Town Brown

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« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2006, 09:55:50 pm »
Quote (cnitrofumes @ Nov. 29 2006,20:14)
The spec is a minimum....the weld are actually a little further than the min. 1 inch....in either direction...but still in a location that would be normally looked at by the chassis cert. tech. guy.

You don't get any points for building heavier than the spec...again it's a MIN. requirement.
I do some stuff out of experience / knowledge.... .095 rear uprights instead of .083......ALL roll cages .083 regardless of height.......sleeves over min. tube sizes at high stress area such as  bottom rails at rearend plates and at frontend mounts.....
I've done the math....adds minimal weight compared to added safety/ durability.

I agree but my point is that if your tube is 12 inches either side of the main hoop (App.) wouldn't your rosettes at each REAL end (Inch from each) of the tube tell that Tech guy subliminally the car is overbuilt and get him back on his heals instead of on his toes like with a car built to the ragged edge?
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Rosette welds
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2006, 09:55:50 pm »
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